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Replies: 39
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Prediction Time!
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Oct 3, 2023, 3:53 PM
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The season starts in just over a month! I haven't been this high on a Clemson Tiger basketball team in a long time.
We have a tough non-conference schedule that includes some high profile teams, along with some mid majors that are also very good. In conference, our schedule is tougher than last years and I'm sure the ACC will be much better. We start the ACC with 3 of our first 4 games being on the road which is difficult. We need to start off hot in the ACC!
Let's hear your predictions!
Non-Conference: 9-2
Conference: 15-5
Total: 24-7
Wintrop - W
Neutral UAB - W
Neutral Maryland - W
Boise St. - W
Alcorn St. - W
@Alabama - L
@Pitt - W
USuCk - W
Neutral TCU - W
@Memphis - L
Queens - W
Radford - W
@Miami - L
UNC - W
@VT - W
BC - W
GT - W
@FSU - L
@Duke - L
Louisville - W
UVA - W
@UNC - L
@Syracuse - W
Miami - W
NC State - W
@GT - W
FSU - W
Pitt - W
@ND - W
Syracuse - W
@WF - L
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Freshman [-79]
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After losing a lot off our 2nd best Brownell roster who lost to More Head
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Oct 3, 2023, 3:55 PM
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You really expect us to do all that!?
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: After losing a lot off our 2nd best Brownell roster who lost to More Head
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Oct 3, 2023, 4:14 PM
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You do realize that wasnt the only game that we played last year, right? You obviously dont understand basketball.
You also realize that we only lost 3 players from lst years team? We replaced one of the starters with somebody better from the portal in joe girard, and middlebrookes was replaced by a big man with way more experience and should be better as a back up. The only loss from our roster that makes an impact is hunter tyson, And we got a starter from an ncaa team to replace him. I think we will be fine.
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Rock Defender [71]
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Re: After losing a lot off our 2nd best Brownell roster who lost to More Head
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Oct 3, 2023, 4:19 PM
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Exactly. How everyone keeps forgetting we also lost to Scar, BC, Louisville, and Loyola Chicago is beyond me.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: After losing a lot off our 2nd best Brownell roster who lost to More Head
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Oct 3, 2023, 4:47 PM
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This just in, teams get upset in basketball! Apparently our special widdle football fans havent figured that out yet!
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Rock Defender [71]
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Re: After losing a lot off our 2nd best Brownell roster who lost to More Head
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Oct 3, 2023, 4:51 PM
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Sure upsets happen. Brown-L, with his 2nd best team ever lost too many quad 3 and 4 games to get an invite. That's poor coaching not upsets.
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Legend [16963]
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Re: After losing a lot off our 2nd best Brownell roster who lost to More Head
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Oct 3, 2023, 10:38 PM
[ in reply to Re: After losing a lot off our 2nd best Brownell roster who lost to More Head ] |
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No other ACC coach has lost more games to sub-200 RPI teams than Brownell so the everyone does it excuse does not fly. Pretending it’s not true doesn’t make it go away. It’s the constant of his career. I wouldn’t doubt that he he is approaching the most sub-200 RPI losses by any ACC coach in history but it would be pretty hard to put that together. Perhaps I’ll start searching for losses against teams that finished with an overall losing record. He probably holds that one too.
He lost 4 games to teams with losing records last year. Nearly half of his regular season losses. He could have had the same exact record - just swap 2 of these with the victories over winning teams and he is in the tourney. He does it year, after year, after year. How many other ACC teams lost 4 games to teams with losing records last year? How many of those turned around and whined that they should have been in the tourney?
You can like Brad. You can want him to be out coach forever. But stop lying about reality.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: After losing a lot off our 2nd best Brownell roster who lost to More Head
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Oct 4, 2023, 10:22 AM
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What the actual facts show is last year was an outlier in terms of losing to teams with over 200 RPI. Saying this is a "constant" of his career is quite the overstatement. Last year I would call more unlucky than anything and it certainly isn't the norm. The USC game was the second game of the year where PJ was just coming back, and our starting lineup wasn't set. It was also a fluky game. Loyola, we just shot awful from 3. Louisville we played them when they started getting hot. They should have beaten UVA the game before and also played Miami very well. We had to play in their arena when is was the most packed it had been all year.
We have beaten more ranked teams than we have lost to teams w/ over 200 RPI. Per your silly logic, is that the norm/constant in the Brownell era too? I just want to keep things consistent.
Teams we lost to w/ over 200 RPI over 13 years
2022 - 3
2021 - 2
2020 - 1
2019 - 0
2018 - 0
2017 - 0
2016 - 0
2015 - 1
2014 - 1
2013 - 0
2012 - 1
2011 - 2
2010 - 0
Shouldn't have even responded to a troll like you, and this will be the last one in the thread. Continuing to bash our student athletes like you do is embarrassing. How about you actually talk about basketball, or quit posting in this thread.
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Legend [16963]
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Re: After losing a lot off our 2nd best Brownell
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Oct 4, 2023, 12:30 PM
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Here’s the thing. You actually did the homework and see that he averages a loss to a sub-200 RPI in 85% of his seasons and you think this validates him? These should be extraordinary outliers. If you want me swear fealty to Lord Brownell how about complete the task and find me an ACC coach who has more of these? Should be easy right? Everyone does it. Find me one and I’ll never respond to you about Brownell again.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: After losing a lot off our 2nd best Brownell
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Oct 4, 2023, 2:10 PM
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Im not going to spend a ton of time on this, but i may take an extra look if i ever hve the time! I did look at nc state for the last 3 years, and they had 3. Louisville had about 7 just last year!
Lastly, if you look at who we actually lost to, it also tells a different story. An ooc loss to a sub 500 team rarely happens. Most of these losses happen to ACC teams on the road. For example, the one loss in 2020 was to miami, who was injured to start the year. They hd isaiah wong and cam mcgusty on their team. They beat us in the ACC tournament to advance to the semi finals. They also beat ranked louisville, duke, nc state and pitt that year.
Repeat it with me.
- last year was a big time outlier as it pertains to this conversation
- beating ranked teams is a CONSTANT during the brownell tenure.
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Legend [16963]
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Re: After losing a lot off our 2nd best Brownell
Oct 5, 2023, 2:08 PM
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Clemson under Brad
Average ACC Finish - 7th
Average RPI - 84
Average RPI rank - 10
Average Q3+4 Losses - 3.1
Average Q3+4 Losses Rank - 11
How this measures up against League:
Average RPI for teams finishing 7th - 61
Brownell % over RPI by league finish - 38%
Average Q3+4 Losses by League - 2.6
Brownell % over average Q3+4 losses - 19%
Avg Q3+Q4 by ACC avg Quad 2 teams - 2.3
Brownell % over Q3+4 losses by avg quad 2 teams - 35%
Place Deviation for Q3+4 losses versus ACC rank - -4 (worst in the league)
Place Deviation for RPI versus ACC rank- -3 (tied worst in league)
Average Q3+4 losses by ACC 7th place team (excluding Clemson) - 1
Brownell % over Q3+Q4 losses by ACC Rank - 210%
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: After losing a lot off our 2nd best Brownell
Oct 5, 2023, 3:26 PM
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Please cite your sources.
Message was edited by: Clemson mountaineers®
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Legend [16963]
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Re: After losing a lot off our 2nd best Brownell
Oct 5, 2023, 5:20 PM
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I created an excel spreadsheet from every final ncaa team sheet in the database for 13 seasons he has been coach for every team in the ACC. I used Warren Nolan for 2021-23 which are not yet In the ncaa database. It was quite time consuming.
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All-TigerNet [13587]
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Legend [16963]
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Legend [16174]
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Legend [16963]
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Re: What do you do to support Tiger basketball?***
Oct 5, 2023, 3:17 PM
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Does attending every ACC Final, NCAA Final Four, and NCAA Championship in the history of the program count?
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Legend [16174]
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So you don't buy tickets...Don't go to the games...Don't
Oct 6, 2023, 2:15 AM
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cheer for the team and make LJC a tougher place for opponents? So why do you even care what the team does? Or more importantly, why should we give a randy rat's ### what you think about a program you don't support in any way?
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Legend [16174]
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So you don't buy tickets...Don't go to the games...Don't
Oct 6, 2023, 2:17 AM
[ in reply to Re: What do you do to support Tiger basketball?*** ] |
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cheer for the team and make LJC a tougher place for opponents? So why do you even care what the team does? Or more importantly, why should we give a randy rat's ### what you think about a program you don't support in any way?
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Legend [16174]
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Hall of Famer [23157]
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Re: Prediction Time!
Oct 3, 2023, 5:42 PM
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I hope you’re right.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Prediction Time!
Oct 3, 2023, 6:39 PM
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A little ambitious, but i think this squad can do it.
I feel good about the non-conference at 9-2 but we could easily lose a couple more ACC games than predicted.
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All-TigerNet [11588]
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Re: Prediction Time!
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Oct 4, 2023, 12:06 AM
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I'll bite. 21-10. But will that be good enough for strong seeding for the NCAAT? Have to wait and see. Last thing I want you do is predict scores after who this team lost to with so many head scratching losses to sub 200 rpi ranked teams. It will be at least hopefully an NCAAT First Four Team. But a few big injuries away from being an NIT team again.
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All-TigerNet [14511]
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Re: Prediction Time!
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Oct 4, 2023, 4:39 PM
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User Logo
nctigs
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Re: Prediction Time! 1
Oct 4, 2023, 12:06 AM [ in reply to Re: Prediction Time! ]
Reply
I'll bite. 21-10. But will that be good enough for strong seeding for the NCAAT? Have to wait and see. Last thing I want you do is predict scores after who this team lost to with so many head scratching losses to sub 200 rpi ranked teams. It will be at least hopefully an NCAAT First Four Team. But a few big injuries away from being an NIT team again.
HERE IS MY PREDICTION. THIS ONE IS A LOCK. NCTIGS WILL ONCE AGAIN NOT GRACE THE DOORS OF LITTLEJOHN BUT WILL BE IN HERE TO B!TCH AT EVERY CHANCE HE CAN POUNCE. PATHETIC
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All-In [25115]
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That would put us at like a 2 or 3 seed in the ncaa tournament***
Oct 4, 2023, 12:38 AM
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Legend [16963]
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Re: That would put us at like a 2 or 3 seed in the ncaa tournament***
Oct 4, 2023, 7:19 AM
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I wonder if the op realizes Brownell, in 13 seasons as coach, has never improved his win percentage in consecutive seasons.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: That would put us at like a 2 or 3 seed in the ncaa tournament***
Oct 4, 2023, 8:50 AM
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This is why you dont simply look at history on paper. Imagine simply looking at a sports reference page instead of looking at the talent on the roster. We might not improve our stellar win% from lst year, but this will be a better team!
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Legend [16963]
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Re: That would put us at like a 2 or 3 seed in the ncaa tournament***
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Oct 4, 2023, 12:08 PM
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I don’t know what to tell you if you don’t think data and trends established over 13 seasons aren’t meaningful. Even if he defies them this year then it becomes an obvious outlier. But, congrats, you get a 14th season to see if he can win anything meaningful. He’s always been good at giving his best in a contract year. Not giving him an extension might be Neff’s way of trying to get him to finally coach 2 seasons in a row.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: That would put us at like a 2 or 3 seed in the ncaa tournament***
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Oct 4, 2023, 3:20 PM
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So is losing 3 games to teams over 200 RPI in one year, yet you act like it's a norm.
Clemson has finished above our preseason ACC ranking nearly every year! This year we were picked 4th! So on paper we are going to finish top 3! Yay!!!
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110%er [6979]
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NIT again! Maybe win one game this time??***
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Oct 4, 2023, 7:39 AM
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Walk-On [142]
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Re: Prediction Time!
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Oct 4, 2023, 1:42 PM
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Not sure why you even try here Mountaineer. The haters are gonna hate. I for one can't wait to get to Littlejohn and see the Tigers play. I think we have a great chance to be a good team and make the tournament, but win or lose, I'll be there cheering them on. Go Tigers!
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Prediction Time!
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Oct 4, 2023, 3:21 PM
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Good to see we have some fans that arent completely blinded by their hatred of brownell!
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Orange Blooded [3620]
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Re: Prediction Time!
Oct 4, 2023, 2:41 PM
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You have us losing zero home games.
I do not see that lol
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re: Prediction Time!
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Oct 4, 2023, 3:17 PM
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Last season we had 1 loss at home during the regular season.
The last time we went to the ncaa tourney, we had 0 losses at home.
You are right, it's probably unlikely. It is an ambitious prediction. Anything can happen in college basketball!
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All-TigerNet [11588]
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Re: Prediction Time!
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Oct 4, 2023, 5:27 PM
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Last season we had 1 loss at home during the regular season.
The last time we went to the ncaa tourney, we had 0 losses at home.
You are right, it's probably unlikely. It is an ambitious prediction. Anything can happen in college basketball!
Check that Notre Dame game the last season when they last went to a NCAAT. Might see something that wasn't a win...
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All-TigerNet [13587]
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Re: Prediction Time!
Oct 4, 2023, 5:07 PM
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I think expecting an undefeated home schedule might be just a bit of a stretch...
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Scout Team [184]
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Re:
Oct 4, 2023, 8:42 PM
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I truly hope I am wrong. Reasons below.
5-6 Non conference
9-11 Conference
14 - 17 overall
Lose to UAB, Maryland, Alcorn ST and TCU in addition to the ones mentioned.
Lpse both games to UNC, Miami, and FSU. Lose @ VT, @ ND, and UVA.
Reasoning:
Team cohesion has been an issue. There is individual talent but are the players going to find that comfort with each other?
With the loss of Tyson, do we have a true two-way player?
The defense will be solid again, but what happens with the offense? Do we live and die by the three? (Celtics vs Miami)
The backcourt should be decent but can the frontcourt be physical enough to compete with tournament teams? (Miami vs Denver)
Will the bench be deep enough if we get in foul trouble?
Brownell will put good talent on the floor. We overachieved last year with one of the best players to wear a Clemson uniform and probably the best since Trevor Booker.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re:
Oct 5, 2023, 8:59 AM
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I appreciate the serious response, but i obviously disagree!
The record you put forth would be brownell's second worst season of his tenure. His worst season we had devin booker and milton jennings as seniors, no juniors, and brownell's first 2 classes. That was the least talented/experienced roster brownell has seen.
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Scout Team [184]
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Re:
Oct 5, 2023, 10:28 AM
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I agree, it would be utterly disappointing and demoralizing. I sincerely hope that I am wrong.
I look forward to seeing both Ian and PJ muscle their way inside, taking it to the opposing defenses and finishing strong.
We know that Chase can create plays and Alex, when healthy, can drain the jumper near flawlessly.
Will all of it culminate into dominant team performances or just individual performances? The difference in a sub .500 season and a plus .700 season.
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Orange Blooded [2669]
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Re:
Oct 5, 2023, 1:32 PM
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You are forgetting about joe girard, who is one of the top 3pt shooters in the ACC.
chse hunter is great at getting his teammates involved as he averaged kore assists per game last year than every clemson PG since Ed Scott. Also, joe girard, who will start at the 2 preciously played PG at syracuse as a 4 year starter for them. He is a good creator as well. Throw in schef, who is still improving and is already the best passer on the team, i dont hbe any worry about us not playing as a team.
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