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What Are Realistic Expectations?
I had a caller on my radio show this morning that tried to say Clemson’s expectations are too high. The caller was a Georgia fan and said Clemson is a small school in a small state and the fans expectations are too high.

The Atlantic Division
Florida State-The Seminoles are down at the current time and actually have been for a few years now. Florida State had zero tradition until the late 1970s or early 1980s but they really had it going then. The economy in Florida is awful and some factors are against the Seminoles but the facilities are fantastic. FSU has branded itself well and have a great recruiting base. In the end FSU has the most potential of any team on the Atlantic Division.

NC State-Facilities are very good at NC State and they have some tradition there. The recruiting base is good also. Fans at NC State actually care about football too. I think it is reasonable for Wolfpack fans to expect a division title at least once per decade or so.

Maryland-The Terps have a decent tradition. Their facilities are not as good as NC State and the fan base is a little less interested than NC State’s. Maryland fans are still a little more basketball based but the football recruiting base is geographic and demographic advantage. Maryland is in a major metropolitan area and lose the battle with the Redskins and other DC/Baltimore teams from an interest standpoint but the fans do pay attention at times.

Boston College-The population base is good but for the most part I have found this fan base to be in indifferent. The facilities are average and the tradition is about average as well. I think BC is slightly behind Maryland because the fan base in New England is still more about the Red Sox, Celtics, Patriots and Bruins. This is a pro sports town and the competition drowns out BC athletics. I imagine some Boston area sports fans had to be told that BC won the Atlantic Division of the ACC last season.

Wake Forest-This entire program is based upon Jim Grobe and his current success. The Deacs had nothing before him and I am not sure they will have anything left after him. The facilities are adequate but they have won the conference in the past two years and still have a hard time creating local interest. The size of the school is a major disadvantage that is difficult to overcome.

Clemson-We are a small school in a small state. But football is important here and that is clear when looking at facilities and support. Clemson is in the top four of the ACC in terms of history, tradition, facilities and fan support.

The Coastal Division
Miami-The Canes have won five national titles but no one seems to care in South Florida. I guess there are too many things to do in the area and the local alumni base is too small. Miami has a difficult time competing against the Dolphins but this is not a sports town. The Marlins won two World Series titles and still can’t draw. People just don’t care. However, there is still too many good athletes in Dade and Brower Counties for this not to be a football power house.

Virginia Tech-The Hokies are a lot like FSU and Wake Forest in that their entire football tradition has happened under one coach. Something tells me FSU will rebound after Bobby Bowden retires. Something tells me Wake Forest will not after Grobe moves on. I think Virginia Tech will be a power long after Beamer, mainly because of the roots beamer has laid. The foundation is solid because Virginia Tech people care about the sport. The facilities are good and the recruiting base is solid as well.

North Carolina-This is a basketball school. Always has been. Always will be. However, the facilities are nice and the recruiting base is solid. North Carolina should expect to compete and traditionally have don OK but not recently.

Georgia Tech-Few programs have Tech’s long-term traditions. However, I have found the people of Atlanta arte indifferent to Georgia Tech football the last 15 years. The recruiting base is very good and the facilities are good. Tech has a lot of advantages but have a hard time playing second fiddle in the Peach State.

Virginia-The Cavs have very little history and tradition. They do have a lot of money and this have excellent facilities. Their recruiting base is solid as well. However, I think Virginia’s “Give A Damn” about football is broken. I just don’t see it being a huge priority in Charlottesville like it is in Blacksburg.

Duke-David Cutcliffe has done a good job early in showing some of Duke’s potential but the lack of support, facilities and tradition is too much to overcome.

Clemson last won the ACC in 1991. Since then FSU came in the league and won it 12 times. Virginia Tech ahs two ACC titles since 2004. Since Clemson last won the league Virginia, Georgia Tech, Wake Forest and Maryland have either won the league or shared the title.

I would say expectations should look like this in each division:
Atlantic Division
1. FSU-Should expect to win the division at least 4-5 times every ten years.
2. Clemson-Should expect to win the division at least 2 to 3 times every ten years.
3. NC State- Should expect to win the division at least once every ten years.
4. Maryland- Should expect to win the division at least once every ten years.
5. Boston College- Should expect to win the division at least once every ten years.
6. Wake Forest- Should not have expectations to win the division but instead be pleasantly surprised when they do win it.

Coastal Division
1. Miami- Should expect to win the division at least 3 times every ten years.
2. Virginia Tech- Should expect to win the division at least 2-3 times every ten years.
3. North Carolina- Should expect to win the division at least 2 times every ten years.
4. Georgia Tech- Should expect to win the division at least 1-2 times every ten years.
5. Virginia- Should expect to win the division at least once every ten years.
6. Duke- Should not have expectations to win the division but instead be pleasantly surprised when they do win it.

The Atlantic Coast Conference changed with Florida State entering the league in 1992 and again in the last four years with the addition of Virginia Tech, Miami and Boston College. It is more difficult to win the conference now and the division titles are important. However, Clemson’s expectations in football should be higher than the rest of the league with the exception of the football schools like Miami, FSU and Virginia Tech.

I don’t think it is unreasonable for Clemson fans to expect Atlantic Division and ACC championships every so often. Clemson might not be a national power but I am not sure Tiger football fans expectations are that unrealistic.

The Brad Hughes All-State Insurance Agency

Comments:

Dead on.

Posted by orangecrushed on October 06, 2008 at 12:15 PM EDT #

That's funny coming from a Georgia fan.

Posted by WakeBdr on October 06, 2008 at 12:19 PM EDT #

What a crock! Vatech was NOTHING before Beamer and they can't hold our jock much less compare to our history and tradition, yet their fans and administration have expectations that blow ours out the water. Yet our expectation are too high! Bullsh!t!

I'm so d@mn tired of people selling Clemson short, especially Clemson people!!! When Ford was here we expected to win the ACC every year and compete for a NC. With the new ACC we should expect to compete for the Division every year and win it and then compete for the ACC Title and a BCS Bowl. That's good enough for VaTech, GaTech, and others, but not us?

Posted by flatiger66 on October 06, 2008 at 12:38 PM EDT #

Why would a Georgia fan's comments ever be relevant?

Based on his rationale, aren't Georgia fans' expectations also too high?

SC population: 4,321,249 - 2006 estimate
GA population: 4,630,841 - 2008 estimate

Number of football scholarships at UGA - 85
Number of football schlarships at Clemson - 85

Posted by spectrum on October 06, 2008 at 12:39 PM EDT #

WVu, in a small poor state with nowhere near our facilities & tradition, yet look at them the last 25 years! You telling me we can't expect to do better than VaTech & WVu year in & year out?

They have far greater expectations than Clemson, and far greater success over the last 20 years, yet those 2 schools shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as CU football!

Only losers and failures in life have low expectations!! When did CU & its fans become such wimpy crybaby losers!!

Posted by flatiger66 on October 06, 2008 at 12:39 PM EDT #

Crap. sorry about the multiple postings of the same post guys. My computer is freezing up today and Mickey's blog doesn't let you edit or delete anything after posting. My apologies!!

Posted by flatiger66 on October 06, 2008 at 12:56 PM EDT #

I expect to COMPETE for it EVERY year. Not be one play and 6 inches from ALMOST competing for simply a chance to play in the ACCCG year after year.

Posted by 90Orange on October 06, 2008 at 01:45 PM EDT #

Good post, Mickey.

I would argue, though, that we should be at least on par with VT on our long-term expectations. We have just as much, if not more, of an overall commitment to our football program. Their only advantage of late has been Beamer.

(BTW -- When are we going to get the blog about issues in our AD?)

Posted by Tiger TC on October 06, 2008 at 02:09 PM EDT #

Mickey--
A modest correction, sir. It is BROWARD COUNTY, FL---not Brower.

Posted by bbrown cren on October 06, 2008 at 02:32 PM EDT #

The FIRST expectation should be that our teams compete to the best of their ability. We have seldom seen that in the Bowden years. Until we see that week in and week out we will not know what our expectations really ought to be.

Posted by Shipyard Tiger on October 06, 2008 at 03:11 PM EDT #

So if Clemson fans should only expect to win 2-3 DIVISION titles every 10 years, does that mean that we should only expect to win 1–1.5 ACC titles every 10 years? That seems too low. And it’s too depressing to even think about. I guess it makes sense. And yet, for some reason, it seems like it would be reasonable to expect 2-3 ACC titles per decade if Clemson hired a top notch coach. (Heck, Clemson would have probably won 2 times this decade if Rich Rodriguez were still the OC—though admittedly the ACC has been down.)

The state of SC ranks 10th for the number of native sons playing in the NFL, so there is ample talent around. http://www.nflhs.com/News/Features/2005Roster/Default.asp

Florida is talent rich, but they have 4 good in-state football schools (UF, FSU, UM, & USF)-- not to mention that it’s being raided by several out-of-state schools like Clemson. So I’m not convinced that FSU and UM will come back to dominate the ACC.

Posted by Razzmatazz on October 06, 2008 at 04:20 PM EDT #

To spectrum: Ga population 9,363,941
SC population 4,321,249
This is using 2006 estimates from the US Census Bureau.

Posted by D210tiger on October 06, 2008 at 05:21 PM EDT #

FIRE TOMMY BOWDEN!!!!!!!!
FIRE TOMMY BOWDEN!!!!!!!!

Posted by tiger7272 on October 06, 2008 at 06:18 PM EDT #

The ACC stinks...Clemson should enter every season expecting to win it.

Posted by Prime T.+Tiger on October 06, 2008 at 06:40 PM EDT #

Flatiger66 You do know that saying it over and over won't make it true. Comparing us to Michigan is the very reason people think we have unreasonable expectations. Michigan has won more games than any school. We did'nt even have sustained success until the late 70's and had to cheat to get it. Get a hold of yourself. I bleed orange too, but I don't think we're better than the Dalls Cowboys!

Posted by CM Shack on October 06, 2008 at 06:40 PM EDT #

Yea, sure, maybe lower expectations will make us feel better. Sure!

Posted by captron on October 06, 2008 at 08:47 PM EDT #

Since when is Clemson University a small school?!? We are obviously not a huge school like Ohio State or Florida with 40,000+ enrollment, but at 17,000 students we are certainly a mid-sized school. A small school would be Wake Forest or Furman (only a few thousand students).

South Carolina ranks 26th out of 50 in terms of total population. Again, I do not consider that "small." It isn't a large state like California, Texas, or New York, but it is clearly right in the middle when it comes to population. Plus, our state's high school football talent has historically been better than the state's population should suggest.

Posted by Judge Keller on October 06, 2008 at 09:30 PM EDT #

Past history is no indication of future success. You still have to be the best and not rely on what happened 10, 15 45 years ago, etc.

This is the biggest crock of $hit in sports..

Posted by Justwannaread on October 06, 2008 at 10:33 PM EDT #

CM Shack,

1st, I didn't post multiple times on purpose and I apologized. Try reading ALL the responses!!!

2nd, Like most people on TNET, you flame without having reading AND comprehending. I did NOT compare CU football to Michigan football. I compared overall athletic success. Our ENTIRE AD to theirs. Their AD budget is $100+ million per year, ours well under $45 million. When looking at the Top 3 sports ... football, baseball, & basketball, then soccer, golf, etc. - Our overall success compares fairly well, especially considering our AD budget is a fraction of Michigan's.

Posted by flatiger66 on October 07, 2008 at 12:31 AM EDT #

The population of the staoe of georgia per the 2006 census estimate is 9,363,941. Well over double our population. Somebody needs to check his facts.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/13000.html

Posted by milerock on October 07, 2008 at 08:40 AM EDT #

FlaTig, wrong again. Baseball is about the only sport we have on Michigan. Have we made it to a BCS game? UM went to 4, Final 4, well we surely don't want to go there. Have we been to a Frozen 4? Did you do any research past the AD Budget? Like MOST PEOPLE ON TNET, it would appear you did not! Secondly, I know you mistakenly posted the same post, it is called a joke. I guess you used your sense of humor to compare us to Michigan because that makes anyone with a brain LAUGH!

Posted by CM Shack on October 07, 2008 at 01:59 PM EDT #

dude, our budget is well under 50 mil, michigan's is over 100 mil. look it up.

our ad relative to size of school, money, population, alumni base etc, is comparable.

Posted by flatiger66 on October 07, 2008 at 08:27 PM EDT #

You're comparing Clemson to Michigan...Michigan is a National University...Clemson isn't.

Posted by Tigerfansince1972 on October 08, 2008 at 10:24 AM EDT #