Wednesday July 01, 2009
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Wednesday July 01, 2009
We’re Number 53! I know I have been very critical in recent months about the lack of championships and lack of passion in the leadership in Clemson athletics. I hate negative news and wish there were more positives to report. Some feel this is fair criticism while other think it is only opinion and not above board. Unfortunately more evidence came out this week to support the argument about the lack of success. The Director’s Cup final results came out this week. This competition used to be called the Sears Cup but now is called the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics Cup. The competition includes the following sports: men’s and women’s cross country, women’s field hockey, football, men’s and women’s soccer, men’s and women’s volleyball, men’s and women’s water polo, men’s and women’s basketball, women’s bowling, fencing, men’s and women’s gymnastics, men’s and women’s ice hockey, rifle, skiing, men’s and women’s swimming, men’s and women’s indoor and outdoor track and field, men’s wrestling, baseball, men’s and women’s golf, men’s and women’s lacrosse, women’s rowing, softball, and men’s and women’s tennis. To be fair, Clemson only fields teams in 19 of the 36 sports in the competition. By comparison, North Carolina fields 28 teams and South Carolina fields 21 teams. Here is a list of the number of sports each ACC field: I know some of you only care about football but for those of us that do care about the entire athletic department, we get disappointing but not surprising news this week. Clemson finished 53rd in the country in the final Directors Cup competition. The Tigers finished 10th in the ACC and 19th of the 24 ACC and SEC schools. Here is how each ACC and SEC school finished: These rankings started in 1993 and this year is the worst Clemson has ever finished in the standings. Here is a list of how Clemson has finished each year: Again, to be fair, Clemson does not field as many sports as some of the league schools but the numbers indicate that we are not as successful as we once were. Five of the first nine years Clemson finished in the top 30. It has now been seven straight years of finishing outside of the top 30. Some will blame this on the athletic department’s leadership. Others will say tuition hikes hurt some of the sports due to the rise in partial scholarship costs passed on to the students. Some will say tuition hikes have hurt IPTAY funds and this has had an effect. Some will point out the money spent chasing US News and World Report’s top 20 has had an adverse effect on the athletic department. Evidence does point out that you don’t have to choose between academic success and athletic success. Highly thought of academic institutions do well in these standings. Stanford has won 15 straight titles in this competition. This year North Carolina finished second, Florida third, Michigan is fifth, Texas is sixth, Cal is seventh, Virginia finished eighth, Ohio State is tenth, Washington finished 11th, UCLA is 16th, Georgia is 18th, Penn State is 19th and Illinois is 20th. In all 12 schools finished in the top 20 of the Director’s Cup and in the top 20 of the US News and World Report’s list of public schools. This does not include private schools that finished in the top 20 of the Director’s Cup like Stanford (first) and Duke (17th). We can point fingers and argue about who is to blame for Clemson’s lack of athletic success compared to earlier decades. I am not exactly sure what reasons are valid and which are unfair in assessing blame. However, I do know the athletic department has slipped. This is a fact. The numbers are clear. A few weeks ago I detailed how the number of ACC championships have fallen to record lows in recent years. Now we get this data that the athletic department has its lowest ranking ever in the Director’s Cup. Four ACC championships in six years is unacceptable. Tenth in the ACC in the Director Cup standings is unacceptable. We should be better. We must do something to get better. We must improve and it needs to happen sooner rather than later. The Brad Hughes All-State Insurance Agency
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Certainties in life:
1. Death
2. Taxes
3. Criticism of Barker and the top 20 goal in Plyler's blog every day
Since you obviously feel this is a problem, perhaps a future blog could deal with your ideas for changing things. Not just generalities, but specifics. For example:
-What do you feel our academic goals should be?
-Who should our peer institutions be academically and athletically?
-How should we respond to the state budget cuts for higher education (which, if you haven't noticed, occur every year)?
-Should we make school easier for the athletes (you alluded to this in a blog last week)?
-Who should be fired, and who would you replace them with?
If you're going to spend so much time criticizing, you owe it to your readers to offer your solutions.
Posted by Judge Keller on July 01, 2009 at 12:45 PM EDT #
this is annually one of the most ridiculous "rankings" that are dreamed up. So Clemson is #53.....
tell me, would ANY Clemson fan out there trade our 2008-09 sports season with:
Virginia (#8)? Really?
How about Duke (#17)?
Tennessee (#23)?
Maryland (#28)?
Hey how about that monumental season South Carolina had (#39)? How we WISH we could have the success they had.
Other than UNC, Florida, and maybe LSU, what other school's sports year do you wish Clemson could have matched? FSU? Ohio State? So Cal? Bama?
Not many out there, huh.
Posted by scooter on July 01, 2009 at 12:53 PM EDT #
Mickey --- These rankings mean almost nothing to the majority of Clemson fans and alums.
If Clemson actually won national titles in every sport but football, Basketball and baseball, but the Tigers turned in poor seasons in those three sports, our Directors Cup standings would go up ... and virtually everyone associated with Clemson sports would be angry.
Posted by apextiger on July 01, 2009 at 01:14 PM EDT #
I agree with you, Mickey, but I also agree with Judge Keller that you need to outline the steps you think we should take in order to get back to where we "should" be. You obviously disagree with the firings of some of the coaches over the past couple of years, but we have been way down on the list for quite some time, so maybe changes needed to be made? If we had fired TDP and kept the coaches who were let go, then would we be higher up the list? Would we be higher up the list if Clemson sent more money to the athletic department? We could lower the cost of tuition, but that would decrease the revenue coming into the university which would probably result in even more cuts in the athletic budget. I don't know the answers, but would love to know your thoughts.
Posted by Locotiger on July 01, 2009 at 01:18 PM EDT #
Judge Keller,
I appreciate your questions. I wrote a response to your post but it is 736 words and this forum will not let me paste it in its full form. I hope it is OK if I cut and past your questions in the Friday e-mail bag. Thanks in advance.
Posted by Mickey Plyler on July 01, 2009 at 01:28 PM EDT #
Scooter,
Are four ACC titles in six years satisfactory? I said in the blog that Clemson is at a disadvantage in the Director's Cup rankings. But we used to be better. That is a fact. Plus we used to win ACC titles across the board. That does not happen anymore and I don't think it is acceptable.
Posted by Mickey Plyler on July 01, 2009 at 01:31 PM EDT #
Apextiger,
I agree but some of us do care. I said in the blog that many don't care about other sports but why field a team if you don't want to win titles? Some of us do care a lot about all of the sports here.
Posted by Mickey Plyler on July 01, 2009 at 01:33 PM EDT #
Locotiger,
I have not written a response to your post yet but I know it will be more than 1000 characters which is the max for this format. I hope it is OK to include your quetsions in the Friday E-mail. Thanks in advance.
Posted by Mickey Plyler on July 01, 2009 at 01:35 PM EDT #
I hate to put off responses but this is an important subject and I want to be able to touch on both posts and give them their full respect. I hope everyone is OK with this. I think this subject deserves it. Thanks.
Posted by Mickey Plyler on July 01, 2009 at 01:37 PM EDT #
We made the Big Dance, the Super Regionals, and played in the Gator Bowl. Who gives a crap about winning the ACC crew championship. I'd rather watch us finish last in ladies softball if we had been smart enough to field a team in that.
In other words the Director's cup don't mean diddly to most of us. We do like to win ACC championships occasionally in Football and Baseball though. Basketball championships may be asking a little much.
Posted by Chester Cat on July 01, 2009 at 01:44 PM EDT #
Mickey, that sounds great. I look forward to reading your reply in Friday's blog.
Posted by Judge Keller on July 01, 2009 at 01:45 PM EDT #
Chester Cat,
Thanks for the response. I am not saying you are wrong and appreciate your opinion. Basketball is as good as ever and it was nice to see baseball make a comeback. You can use the Gator Bowl if you want but 7-6 in football is not acceptable to me. I think that will improve in 2009. We will agree to disagree on the other sports. Some of us do love all Clemson athletics and want to win in those sports as well.
Posted by Mickey Plyler on July 01, 2009 at 01:53 PM EDT #
Chester,
I hate to break it to you, but the only sport out of the Big 3 that we are better at today than 20 years ago is basketball. Our football & baseball in recent years are not even close to where we were throughout the late 70s thru early 90s. FACT!!
Additionally, I like to think Big 4, because until recently we were known for soccer and were a soccer powerhouse. Our soccer today sux!!
And FYI, most alumni & true CU sports fans DO indeed care about the entire athletic department. CU sports today SUCK compared to the 70s, 80s, & early 90s!! FACT!!
Posted by flatiger66 on July 01, 2009 at 02:12 PM EDT #
Thankyou, Mickey. I admit that I do not follow all of the sports at Clemson, but believe if you are going to field a team that you should try to be the best. In that regard, we should do all that we can to make sure all of our teams at least have a fighting chance of being competitive with the best teams in the nation.
I look forward to your response.
Posted by Locotiger on July 01, 2009 at 02:42 PM EDT #
Wow, some of the responses to this are outlandish. I don't see anything wrong with what you've written here. Most Clemson fans care about the majority of the sports we field. Golf is huge, I keep up with our good tennis players, loved watching soccer when I was a student. I love it all. Basketball is huge right now. I missed only 2 ACC home games last season. Love it! We should definitely strive to win championships in all sports, including basketball. Saying you'll settle for anything less makes you sound like a USC fan.
Posted by Paws4Effect on July 01, 2009 at 02:45 PM EDT #
Regarding enthusiasm for minor sports ...
Most Clemson fans who claim to follow soccer couldn't tell you the difference between a red card and a red snapper ... they know we won the ACC in crew but they don't know the difference between a racing scull and a row boat ... they feel like our vollyball team is pretty solid, but they don't totally understand why college players don"t "rotate" positions after each point.
They get a warm fuzzy feeling when a minor sport is extremely successful, but it in no way takes the place of success by the "Big Three"!
Posted by apextiger on July 01, 2009 at 03:03 PM EDT #
Mickey, good blog. Overall, we have turned into a consistently mediocre athletic program. The numbers show it.
I find the criticism of you in the comments very odd. I see a number of comments that people don't care about the "minor sports." They used to. That was when we had ACC championship teams and often-times national caliber teams and individuals across a wide variety of sports. It was much more interesting to keep up with than now.
Mr. Phillips and his staff need to figure out what we need to do better.
Posted by Newberry Tiger on July 01, 2009 at 03:31 PM EDT #
4 conference championships in 6 years is cause for concern. Our ranking in the Stanford Cup is not.
Posted by milerock on July 01, 2009 at 03:34 PM EDT #
Mickey, good blog. Overall, we have turned into a consistently mediocre athletic program. The numbers show it.
I find the criticism of you in the comments very odd. I see a number of comments that people don't care about the "minor sports." They used to. That was when we had ACC championship teams and often-times national caliber teams and individuals across a wide variety of sports. It was much more interesting to keep up with than now.
Mr. Phillips and his staff need to figure out what we need to do better.
Posted by Newberry Tiger on July 01, 2009 at 03:35 PM EDT #
Mickey,
Some good points. You make me think. I am ashamed to admit that I only attend football, men's basketball and baseball games. The best way for all of us to make a difference is to start going to the games. I live close by and will do better at attending other sporting events. I would LOVE to see soccer come back and women's basketball become legitimate. Like it or not, recuits care about attendance.
Posted by Smplman on July 01, 2009 at 03:52 PM EDT #
Considering the fact that Wake and Maryland ranked higher than Clemson, does anyone really think that those two schools have more resources than Clemson? I would bet that their budgets for their sports programs pale in comparison to Clemson's. They do more with less. Clemson does less with more. As for the big three (football, baseball, and basketball) I'd be willing to bet that Dabo, Legget, and OP feel that they get everything they need to be successful. The fact is that CU has not seen the kind of success in football that they are accustomed to and someone MUST get the blame. Unfortunately, our society demands it.
Posted by Buzzlightyear on July 01, 2009 at 03:58 PM EDT #
You can't spell $uccess w/o $
I seriously doubt students and parents care enough about the fringe sports to pay extra tuition. Now if the "SLUSH fund" were used for this... that would be a different story.
Posted by Tiger4Life714 on July 01, 2009 at 04:00 PM EDT #
Keep banging that drum Mickey! Some of us are fully behind you.
Posted by Foothills_Tiger on July 01, 2009 at 04:51 PM EDT #
Right on Mickey! I was being recruited hard by Tennis Coach Chuck Kriese in 1981 and can remember him talking about all the people that would drive up to Clemson to watch us in soccer, baseball, swimming and tennis. He was proud that Clemson sports as a whole attracted interests from fans and students. He sold me on the school's total package of programs as much as he did the tennis program - which was awesome! Sadly, those days are gone.
Posted by RU4GOD2 on July 01, 2009 at 10:58 PM EDT #
BuzzLightYear,
You could NOT be more wrong! You must not spend much time on TNET or read Mickey's blog very often, because Mickey has been on a crusade for over a year talking about the exact opposite of your opinion. And he is talking facts straight from people within. Our President & AD make promises to our coaches & lip service to Alumni & IPTAY, but consistently fail to deliver as promised.
The sad truth is, Barker and most of our current administration and BOT do NOT care, nor want a successful and/or high profile athletic program. To think otherwise is to bury your head in the sand and ignore the facts.
It's a sad commentary to see far more academically prestigious schools than us putting equally great emphasis on sports as we fade deeper into mediocrity.
Posted by flatiger66 on July 02, 2009 at 12:47 AM EDT #
flatiger66,
What exactly is Barker and Phillips withholding from the sports programs?
They have the $ and facilities. What else do they need to be successful? Please educate me.
Posted by Buzzlightyear on July 02, 2009 at 05:54 PM EDT #
Buzz, obviously you haven't been paying attention. Go back and read past blogs by Mickey. Educate yourself.
By the way, do your realize how pathetic our AD is now, versus the 1980s? Go read Mickey's blog where he compares ACC Championships by decade.
You only THINK our coaches are supported based on what Barker says publicly. The reality is something completely different.
Again, go educate yourself. Otherwise, you look foolish, as do many others on here!
Posted by flatiger66 on July 03, 2009 at 12:49 AM EDT #
Flatiger, obviously you can't think for yourself. I don't need to go back and read Mickey's blog to know that the days of Danny Ford and Bill Wilhelm are forever gone. Look, the reality is that if Clemson had won an ACC championship in football in the last couple of years we wouldn't be talking about this. In the good old days the only teams (in football) that you really had to worry about were UNC, NCS, and Maryland. Those days are gone forever. Blind followers look foolish.
Posted by Buzzlightyear on July 03, 2009 at 11:56 AM EDT #
LOL! You are kidding yourself if you think folks wouldn't notice our AD decline if we would simply win a few ACC Championships in football. And FYI, I ALWAYS think for myself and I am very often a dissenting voice on TNET! Yet I'm pretty much always proven right in time!
Posted by flatiger66 on July 03, 2009 at 05:49 PM EDT #
So, your always proven right in time.
Please give us a prediction for the CU 09 football season.
Posted by Buzzlightyear on July 05, 2009 at 01:26 AM EDT #
Buzz,
1. It's not "your", it's you are or you're
2. Predictions are not the same as taking a stand with right & wrong positions.
I will, however, throw out my expectation for this season ... 7-5 is very likely, 8-4 is probably about right, 9-3 if we get some breaks.
If a coach truly has what it takes it shows by season two. Dabo is really going into season two since he has been here a while, recruited these guys, and coached over half of last season. Therefore, he better get it done this year or next, otherwise he's probably gone!! I think this was a stupid experiment and he's on a pretty short leash!
Posted by flatiger66 on July 06, 2009 at 04:43 AM EDT #