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Tuesday March 25, 2008

Are We a Basketball School?

Are We a Basketball School?
It has never really happened and probably will never happen but are we at the point or will we be at the point where Clemson is a basketball school?

One could make the argument that in recent years Clemson has been a baseball school or a golf school or even a soccer school. Bob Pollack has won more ACC titles than any coach here so are we a men’s track school? Chuck Kriese had us a tennis school for a time being. Trevor Adair has final eight and final four appearances. So what are we?

One could always make the argument that Clemson always has been and always will be a football school. Despite the short runs of success in basketball by Cliff Ellis and Rick Barnes and the recent success of Oliver Purnell, there has never been a point where we have been a basketball school. Have you noticed that no one is asking about the seat equity plan for Littlejohn? I wonder how many parking complaints IPTAY gets for basketball.

The biggest issue here is that football is a bigger part of our culture. We tailgate for football. We plan our entire falls around the football schedule. I basketball we show up around tip-off and if anything else came up that day we usually just eat the tickets.

In football we have the Hill and Howard’s Rock. In basketball we have….well at least Littlejohn is better than it used to be.

Let’s examine an argument for and against the major men’s sports at Clemson and how each can stake its claim to carry the athletic department in seven different areas:

Championships
The football team has the big prize here with the 1981 national championship but the Tigers have not won a conference title since 1991.

Basketball has not won a conference title since 1939 and has played for the ACC title only twice.

Baseball has only won a couple of ACC title under Jack Leggett but has won regionals and super-regionals. They have been on the national scene more often in recent years than football or basketball.
Edge: Baseball

Recent Success
Football has been very consistent in number of wins and rarely has a bad season. The program also continues to improve each year and the status of the program has gotten better in the past three seasons.

Oliver Purnell has enjoyed the rare feat of improving his win total in each of his first five seasons. Back-to-back 20 wins seasons has happened only once before but Clemson has won consistently in the last two or three seasons.

Baseball was the best here until the last two seasons. I was disappointed last year and this team is a rebuilding project.
Edge: Basketball

Recruiting
Football has continued to improve its recruiting each season under Bowden. Clemson has turned into a national recruiting force in football.

Basketball has also improved but they had further to go. Purnell and his staff have started to get involved with higher profile athletes and that trend looks like it will continue.

Recruiting in baseball is difficult because you want to recruit well but not too well or the MLB draft will raid your program. Baseball has not recruited on the national scene and has not been as impressive since the departure of Tim Corbin. The baseball athletes don’t look the same as they did under the current Vanderbilt head coach.
Edge: Football

Facilities
The West Zone changed the argument here. Clemson can now boast one of the nation’s finest facilities especially when they complete Phase II.

Littlejohn is much better but still it probably is not considered among the best in the country.

Clemson’s baseball facility was voted among the top five in the country and couple of years ago and they have announced renovations that will take it back to the top again.
Edge: Baseball

Support
Few stadiums in the country are as loud as Death Valley and the atmosphere can be second to none on big game Saturdays.

Littlejohn has gotten better but the consistency is not there. I do believe that this is an area where we will see an improvement on in the coming years.

Baseball has a national reputation as well. Over the past ten years Clemson has to be in the top five in the country in baseball attendance.
Edge: Football with baseball a close second.

Tradition
Football has it all. Tailgating, the Hill, Howard’s Rock, the Paw, etc. Few programs have as much tradition and the Tigers enjoy in football.

Basketball at Clemson has been an afterthought for so long. It can change but this is an area that will take the longest.

Clemson baseball has a national reputation as a power because of their frequent trips to Omaha. Clemson has been a mainstay at the College World Series.
Edge: Football

Branding, Image
Each coach and staff have done a terrific job here. Bowden’s program has an image of high graduation rates and an excellent off of the field record. Unfortately they also have the image of coming close without being able to close the deal.

Purnell and company have made a dent in this area also. He is known as a program builder and this program has the image of playing full court pressure for 40 minutes. His teams are recognized because they play a 94-foot game.

Leggett’s teams have a national reputation also. In the baseball world, his teams are noticed for their aggressiveness.
Edge: Basketball

In summary, Clemson baseball has been the most consistent winner among the three sports but basketball has won more recently. It will take a lot more than that, however, for Clemson to be anything but a football school.



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Comments:

Are you serious asking that? Apparently we aren't. We got knocked out of the tourney in the first round by a 12 seed. That was our first time there in a decade. Yea right we're a big basketball school.

Posted by drock4484 on March 25, 2008 at 01:49 PM EDT #


way off here Mick. Way off

Posted by Pawprinter on March 25, 2008 at 02:22 PM EDT #


Mr. Plyler, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I've ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response was there anything that could even be considered a rational thought. Everyone on Tigernet is now dumber for having read this blog entry. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

FOOTBALL = CLEMSON

Posted by otisman on March 25, 2008 at 02:23 PM EDT #


How in the world can you say that the Basketball team has more recent success than Baseball. The Baseball team is in the tournament EVERY year, and yes we have been dissapointed recently because we have not made it to Omaha, but that is the Elite 8 of Baseball, this team consistently FINISHES in the top 20. The basketball made it to the finals of the NIT last year and got bumped in the first round of the NCAA tournament this year. The basketball team will have to consistently go to the sweet 16 or farther to even come close to matching the success, both recent and historic, of this baseball team.

Posted by SpillerTimeTiger on March 25, 2008 at 02:34 PM EDT #


No

Posted by PokerTiger on March 25, 2008 at 03:46 PM EDT #


We are to Basketball what SCU is to Football and you are to blogs! Will either school win a championship before you write something that makes sense? Stick to pumping sunshine Pollyanna.

Posted by CM Shack on March 25, 2008 at 03:50 PM EDT #


Enthusiasm for the basketball program is great - it's frankly long overdue. However, don't let your enthusiasm outpace the oncourt reality. We had a decent year and improved on last year, which improved on the year-before-that. Consequently, we are now a solid middle-of-the-pack program, no more, no less.

Posted by TigerEE91 on March 25, 2008 at 03:50 PM EDT #


When talking about success in our basketball program, you must include Bill Foster's name.

Posted by CLEMS75 on March 25, 2008 at 04:21 PM EDT #


Mick - - I love ya man, but a MUCH better blog woulda been (in its entirety):

GEEEZZZZZZ . . . I STILL cannot get over what happened Friday night. MP

Posted by kktigers on March 25, 2008 at 04:41 PM EDT #


Give TB a little more time. He will help elevate the basketball program to newer heights! Give OP another recruiting class and he will show you the importance of a COACH.

Posted by FORESTTIGER on March 25, 2008 at 07:29 PM EDT #


Maybe I read ot wrong. I thought I asked a question then came up with an answer of no, we are still a football school. Maybe I can't read but I could have sworn I concluded that we are still a football school.

Posted by Mickey Plyler on March 25, 2008 at 10:51 PM EDT #


Maybe I read it wrong. I thought I asked a question then came up with an answer of no, we are still a football school. Maybe I can't read but I could have sworn I concluded that we are still a football school.

Posted by Mickey Plyler on March 25, 2008 at 10:51 PM EDT #


Mick, this is the point:

The question is so absurd it doesn't even need to be asked, much less thoroughly discussed in a blog.

Posted by otisman on March 26, 2008 at 08:35 AM EDT #


Under the championships section you failed to list national titles in both golf, and soccer.

Posted by albundy13 on March 26, 2008 at 10:20 AM EDT #


What I find interesting is that there are so many sober realist when it comes to our basketball program, yet when the few football realist comment on the state of our football program they are consistently ripped to shreds on this board. I wonder if everyone who proclaims to see our basketball season/program "for what it really is" also share the same objectivity regarding the football program under Tommy Bowden for what it really is: A good middle of the pack program...that every once and a while elevates to upper middle of the pack. Purnell has done more with much less when compared to Bowden and the basketball program has a lot to be excited about...and yes I know this has run astray from the topic.

Posted by SaltyTiger on March 26, 2008 at 10:45 AM EDT #


Tomorrow's blog: "Maybe the sun rises in the west..." followed by a bunch of arguments and the conclusion that it does indeed rise in the east.

:)

Posted by tomerafan on March 26, 2008 at 11:02 AM EDT #


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