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Replies: 84
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Orange Blooded [2242]
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The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 15, 2024, 10:33 AM
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I’ve always loved hearing a good fiddle player. I don’t think I would mind hanging out with him for eternity.
https://youtu.be/sh7BZf7D5Bw?feature=shared
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All-In [30137]
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Oculus Spirit [94416]
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I know you're joking but for anyone who has the misconception of Hell...
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May 15, 2024, 2:11 PM
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it will be a place where all there are alone. Neither God's Spirit nor any other will be of comfort. It's not a place where Satan tortures the occupants. He has his own issues to face.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: I know you're joking but for anyone who has the misconception of Hell...
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May 15, 2024, 5:15 PM
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That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
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110%er [6571]
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Re: I know you're joking but for anyone who has the misconception of Hell...
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May 16, 2024, 9:04 PM
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But dismissal does not mean there is no existence.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: I know you're joking but for anyone who has the misconception of Hell...
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May 17, 2024, 8:22 PM
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sure, i'm more concerned about the "no evidence" part.
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Hall of Famer [24607]
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Hall of Famer [23049]
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C. S. Lewis said, "There are two kinds of people in this world....
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May 16, 2024, 8:08 PM
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Those who say to God, "Thy will be done." And those to whom God says, "Thy will be done." Some people choose hell.
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Orange Blooded [2242]
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Re: C. S. Lewis said, "There are two kinds of people in this world....
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May 16, 2024, 8:30 PM
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Why would anybody choose hell? That’s just ridiculous.
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110%er [6571]
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Re: C. S. Lewis said, "There are two kinds of people in this world....
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May 16, 2024, 8:53 PM
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You choose Hell by making the choice to reject Christ.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: C. S. Lewis said, "There are two kinds of people in this world....
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May 16, 2024, 8:54 PM
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how does one reject a person they don't know exists?
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110%er [6571]
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Re: C. S. Lewis said, "There are two kinds of people in this world....
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May 16, 2024, 8:59 PM
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By saying you "don't know he exists".
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: C. S. Lewis said, "There are two kinds of people in this world....
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May 16, 2024, 9:23 PM
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you are one silly (or dishonest) person, can't tell.
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110%er [6571]
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Re: C. S. Lewis said, "There are two kinds of people in this world....
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May 17, 2024, 7:20 PM
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Believe Whatever makes you happy.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: C. S. Lewis said, "There are two kinds of people in this world....
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May 17, 2024, 8:21 PM
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>Believe Whatever makes you happy.
pot, meet kettle.
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110%er [6571]
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Re: C. S. Lewis said, "There are two kinds of people in this world....
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May 17, 2024, 9:16 PM
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I indeed am happy in my beliefs just as you are.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: C. S. Lewis said, "There are two kinds of people in this world....
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May 17, 2024, 9:37 PM
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That's great
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Orange Blooded [2242]
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Orange Blooded [2242]
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110%er [6571]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 16, 2024, 8:54 PM
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You won't burn for that. You will burn for rejecting Christ.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 16, 2024, 8:55 PM
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What a lovely guy
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110%er [6571]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 16, 2024, 9:00 PM
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Loved us enough to die for us.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 16, 2024, 9:24 PM
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so... burns the vast majority, saves a few but sure, that tracks.
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110%er [6571]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 17, 2024, 7:22 PM
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Freely Offers Offers salvation . Burning is the consequence of your choice to reject His offer.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 17, 2024, 8:21 PM
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Again, I haven't been offered anything, I don't know he exists but you'll continue to assert that I do, I get it.
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110%er [6571]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 17, 2024, 9:18 PM
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You have been offered salvation. Whether or not you believe He exists is your decision.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 17, 2024, 9:36 PM
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I think you are confused on what a belief and a decision are.
What you are saying is this:
you - "Hey, bob is offering you $1000"
me - "Oh yeah? sounds like a good deal, where do I meet him?"
you - "Oh no, you just have to believe it, I can't show you bob or the $1000"
me - "..."
you - "it was your decision not to believe he offered you $1000"
me - "ok bud"
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CU Guru [1413]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 18, 2024, 11:41 AM
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Aaaaaaannnnnddddd if you don’t believe in imaginary Bob and his imaginary gift” He’ll set you on fire
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110%er [6571]
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CU Guru [1413]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 18, 2024, 12:12 PM
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And if the words are not “his words”?
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110%er [6571]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 18, 2024, 1:44 PM
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That's a chance you take and a chance I take. I believe they are His words. You believe they are not His words. One of us is right. One is wrong. Time will tell us which it is. I am instructed to spread The Gospel. I am not instructed to beat you in the head with it. We have opposite beliefs; no big deal.
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CU Guru [1413]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 18, 2024, 1:52 PM
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You are correct.
Reason, logic, evidence & lack there of vs blind faith
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 18, 2024, 2:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded. ] |
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As you said you "believe" they are, are you've also said it "requires faith". Therefore, you do not actually know.
Pretty amazing to go around telling people they need to believe what you don't even know for certain or they will burn in hell.
>One of us is right. One is wrong. Time will tell us which it is.
Again, so you don't actually know. wow.
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110%er [6571]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 18, 2024, 2:24 PM
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There is no doubt in my mind. I am settled.
You have no doubt in your mind. You are settled.
If you are 100 percent sure there is no literal Hell, then you are settled in your belief.
One of my best friends is an atheist who is 100 percent settled in his belief. He does not mind Christianity. He does not mind group prayers in the office. He told me " You hate golf but listen to my golf stories and don't get mad when I invite you to play golf. Why should I be offended by your religious beliefs? I waste my time on the golf course and you waste your time at church.". He views Christianity as my "entertainment" and he views my sharing the Gospel with him as merely an invitation to participate in my hobby. He is truly "settled".
When someone comes onto a "religious" forum to argue against "religion" it just makes me wonder how "settled" they really are. I have never gone onto an "atheist" forum to argue with them. I have no desire to do such.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 18, 2024, 2:57 PM
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>There is no doubt in my mind.
Then why is faith required? Faith is believe without evidence.
>You have no doubt in your mind. You are settled.
Do you like putting words in people mouths? I'm perfectly willing to change my mind based on evidence. So nothing is settled in that sense. Show me Jesus, I believe in Jesus, it's that easy.
>If you are 100 percent sure there is no literal Hell, then you are settled in your belief.
You really REALLY seem to struggle with how other people consider evidence.
Again, no, the reason I don't believe in hell is because I have precisely zero good evidence for it. Of course, hell could exist and I simply don't know it but I'm not going to arbitrarily believe something exists if I have no reason too.
It's simple, show me verifiable evidence for hell and I will believe it exists. You haven't done that.
>One of my best friends is an atheist who is 100 percent settled in his belief. He does not mind Christianity. He does not mind group prayers in the office. He told me " You hate golf but listen to my golf stories and don't get mad when I invite you to play golf. Why should I be offended by your religious beliefs? I waste my time on the golf course and you waste your time at church.".
That seems reasonable to me.
>When someone comes onto a "religious" forum to argue against "religion" it just makes me wonder how "settled" they really are.
Lol, I need to start tracking just how many times you guys bring this up. When I go to the politics board and say I don't like republicans, does it mean I actually secretly really want to be a republican? of course not. When I visit other football forums, is it because I secretly am not settled on being a tiger and want to join their fanbase? Of course not, that's absured. but that's exactly what you guys are saying about religion topics.
I'm gonna turn it around, why are you here then... you don't sound settled to me.. in fact you just told me several time you don't actually know what you believe, you just believe it.
>I have no desire to do such.
Except.. um.. here you are? Interesting... very interesting.
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110%er [6571]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 18, 2024, 3:37 PM
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Faith led me to relationship with Christ. Relationship with Christ eliminated all doubt.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 18, 2024, 4:12 PM
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To be clear, are you saying you have 100% undeniable evidence Christ exists?
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110%er [6571]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 18, 2024, 4:24 PM
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I am telling you I am 100 percent sure he exists.
"You ak me how I know He lives....He lives within my heart.".
Will that satisfy you? Of course not. I would not. expect it to either.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 18, 2024, 5:08 PM
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Well no, it’s just a claim if you can’t give me something i can verify.
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CU Guru [1413]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 18, 2024, 3:58 PM
[ in reply to Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded. ] |
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I also think this is a ridiculous thought that people are “unsettled” coz they come here and chat about it. I get it, it may offend some. Chat threads aren’t always for the thin skinned or faint of heart. Or perhaps you thought you’d only find like minded religious folks, nope.
I think if you’re so settled you have nothing to add, then add nothing, and maybe don’t engage with the rest of us that are here on a relious discussion thread to discuss religious stuff.
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Orange Blooded [3151]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 19, 2024, 12:45 PM
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These exchanges are pretty pointless. The believer has faith that they really can't explain. There is zero doubt in my mind God exists and is active in my life. I don't have a good answer for why I believe. I just do and I while I can disobey God (and frequently do) I cannot not believe. I understand this is meaningless to the non-believer. I have accepted there is no evidence I can provide the non-believer that will satisfy him. I don't have an original manuscript of the scriptures and I don't have a Youtube video of the resurrection. Best I see it - God just hasn't done a work in the non-believer's heart. Nothing the believer can say will change that.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 19, 2024, 1:13 PM
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Here's the thing, I think very few people (including myself) have a problem with you have belief/faith. Totally cool with that.
It's the part where you simultaneously say, "I don't have a good answer for why I believe. I just do" / "have accepted there is no evidence I can provide the non-believer that will satisfy him." and then turn around and say that people are going to hell for not believing like you do.
Where else do you accept logic like that? You wouldn't, and it's ridiculous to think others should.
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Orange Blooded [3151]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 19, 2024, 3:30 PM
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I'm not the originator of the idea (or fact) that non-believers will be ######. The Bible says it and I believe it. If you don't like that the Bible says or or Christians believe it, you're problem is with God not with believers. Damnation of those who reject Christ is either true or it's not. If you're convinced it's not - because you haven't seen sufficient evidence - so be it. I can only tell you what I believe. I'm not trying to talk you into anything.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded.
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May 19, 2024, 4:04 PM
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Nope, you are the one saying it, haven’t heard god say a thing on the matter.
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CU Guru [1189]
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I literally just got done reading Misquoting Jesus, we literally
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May 18, 2024, 2:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: Will be something like that. We will get exactly what we have demanded. ] |
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do not have "his word". We verifiably do not have the original texts and the evidence that they were changed (and purposely so many times) is extremely good.
You do not have "The Word" that you are claiming. In fact, you probably quote scribal changes and forgeries all the time and have no idea.
What you are quoting is simply man-made scripture and that's it. It is not, in any way, evidence of for anything supernatural.
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110%er [6571]
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110%er [6571]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 15, 2024, 4:27 PM
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I am sure you will get your chance to "hang out" with him.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 15, 2024, 5:14 PM
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but still no verifiable evidence this place exists...
just checking in case that's changed.
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110%er [6571]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 16, 2024, 4:56 PM
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One day, we shall know who was right.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
May 16, 2024, 8:57 PM
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so.. you admit you don't have the evidence now, it's just a belief that will "totally happens someday just you watch"..
so silly
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110%er [6571]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 16, 2024, 9:02 PM
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If I had 100 percent proof, where would faith be involved?
You are called to "faith in Christ".
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 16, 2024, 9:27 PM
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Why would "take a guess" be part of the equation for eternal salvation?
The only reason faith is brought up is precisely because there is no verifiable evidence. If there was, religious people would lead with that.
Of course, a religion says to "believe without evidence", it's kind of their only option.
Furthermore, if the bible is to be believed, 100% percent proof was given to certain people. Were they not able to have faith in christ? Was paul? Were the disciples? How do you not see the glaring holes in your argument?
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110%er [6571]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 17, 2024, 9:20 PM
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They had faith that Christ was who He said he was.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 17, 2024, 9:33 PM
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That's great, if that's enough evidence for you, knock yourself out.
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110%er [6571]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 18, 2024, 11:57 AM
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It's enough evidence for me. It is not for you. To each his own. You are confident you are correct. So am I. One of us is wrong. Time will tell which one.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 18, 2024, 2:07 PM
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I love how you say "to each his own" as if it's a choice lol.
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110%er [6571]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 18, 2024, 4:33 PM
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It is a choice. Chocolate or Vanilla. Peach or Strawberry. Christ or atheism.
A very real choice.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 18, 2024, 5:11 PM
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I'm curious, are you purposely avoiding the distinction or do you really not understand it?
I know chocolate and vanilla exist. I have tried them. I can choose which one.
I have not experienced Christ. I can't choose something I have no experience of.
I can only assume you are being dishonest about this because I know you are a smart fella.
You are basically asking me to choose between Chocolate or Ice cream from another planet. I have no evidence the latter exists and yet you want me to choose it?
That's... interesting.
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110%er [6571]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 18, 2024, 6:19 PM
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I fully understand your premise.
I know God is real as much as I know anything is real. Through some bad choices in life (mostly in college) my life has become an utter disaster. I worked hard and partied hard. I eventually became so empty that I was hopeless. I had my vices and severe addictions. One night before I started drinking, I felt the most real, most irresistible call to go dig out a Bible from the closet. I did. I went right to the verses that described my sins. I heard (not in an audible voice, but a real call I could distinguish) to turn from my sin and surrender to Christ. I did. I was instantly changed. The bondage to intoxicants was not only instantly broken, they became instantly repulsive to me. My life was supernaturally changed. The peace I have is nothing short of supernatural. The Holy Spirit in His "still small" but very real voice is very evident to me.
I have no doubt He lives in me.
Can I prove Him to you? No.
I can simply tell you that if you will genuinely seek to know the truth about Him, He will reveal Himself to you.
Does that sound crazy? Yes it does, but it's my life experience
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 18, 2024, 6:45 PM
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And that's great. If I had an experience like that, I'd believe, too. But I haven't, so I'm curious why you keep saying I've chosen to reject someone I have no experience of?
I mean really, what is your thought process there, I'm curious: are you saying that I actually do know christ is God and that I'm just giving him the finger?
Why the heck would I do that?
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110%er [6571]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 18, 2024, 7:14 PM
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I see where you are coming from. If you honestly seek Him, He will reveal Himself to you. You have to be willing to entertain the idea He exists and ask Him for confirming revelation.
I wanted Him to not exist. I wanted to be my own "God" of my life. When I decided to seek the truth about Him, He found me.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me
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May 18, 2024, 7:28 PM
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That's the thing though, I DID do that, for YEARS.
>You have to be willing to entertain the idea He exists and ask Him for confirming revelation.
In my experience, that's just not true, unfortunately. I did more than entertain it. I searched scripture, I spoke with the pastor at church, I joined church groups at Clemson, I prayed A LOT.
You can accuse me of whatever you want, but earnestly seeking God isn't one of them. He just never answered in any way I was aware of.
>I wanted Him to not exist.
I was the opposite, I wanted him to but learned too much in process.
>I wanted to be my own "God" of my life. When I decided to seek the truth about Him, He found me.
I have been accused of this a lot but I never "wanted to be my own God". That never even crossed my mind unless someone was accusing me of it.
>When I decided to seek the truth about Him, He found me.
That's great, i'm happy for you.
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Orange Blooded [2208]
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I personally went through a period of roughly 10 years....
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May 18, 2024, 7:37 PM
[ in reply to Re: The Devil always seemed like a pretty cool fella to me ] |
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where I was an atheist. I laughed at all of it, just like you're doing now. I know exactly how you feel.
And I don't have one specific "seeing the light" moment where it all came to me. I do know that my grandmother would occasionally talk to me about it. She wasn't pushy, but she was a deeply Christian woman, who was worried about my soul. She died of Cancer. And on her death bed, she asked her pastor to send the message to all of her grandchildren (all of us were functional atheists/agnostics) that she wanted us to find Jesus. I thought to myself, "wow, this is so powerful to her, that when she's suffering and dying, she's instead worried about others and wanting to help others." To me, that's what a servant heart is all about. Her death changed me, and I eventually came around to Christ, because that's what powered her heart. I'm not sure if it would've ever happened otherwise.
One other thing: Go look at alot of the best charity/service-oriented organizations. They are very often church-funded. I find that when I'm around people doing this type of ministry work, I see the unselfish hearts they have. These are imperfect people that are the servers and the served. But I see a love of others in these servants that I don't see anywhere else.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: I personally went through a period of roughly 10 years....
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May 18, 2024, 7:40 PM
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But you're missing the point, I'm "laughing" at something I think is real.
I'm asking why I keep getting accused of "choosing" to reject someone I have no idea exists.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: I personally went through a period of roughly 10 years....
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May 18, 2024, 7:40 PM
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*missing a not in there. "I'm NOT laughing"
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Orange Blooded [2208]
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I can't answer your concern really....
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May 18, 2024, 8:46 PM
[ in reply to Re: I personally went through a period of roughly 10 years.... ] |
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You have your own views about the existence of God, as well as the existence of "choice" in the matter.
I can tell you my own experience and my own views, and how I came to them, since that's what I have. But I can't prove to you that God exists or that you have a choice.
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Re: I can't answer your concern really....
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May 18, 2024, 9:12 PM
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>You have your own views about the existence of God, as well as the existence of "choice" in the matter.
The thing i'm getting at is that, in general, christians tend to say that belief in god is a choice, as if it's something you know exists and are simply denying he exists.
At this point, I honestly don't think you guys see the distinction to what i'm saying.
>But I can't prove to you that God exists or that you have a choice.
The choice part, we can absolutely talk about. It would be like me saying you chose not to belief in unicorns. No, you didn't choose to not believe in them, you have no good evidence they exist and are not CONVINCED of their existence. That is not a choice. If you think i'm wrong, go for it, choose to actually believe in unicorns right now and report how it goes.
I'm curious, is the distinction I'm talking about even getting across?
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Orange Blooded [2208]
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Yes, I've seen these exact same arguments in other places online....
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May 18, 2024, 9:31 PM
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You're not the first person that has ever told me that there's no "choice".
I know I'm not going to change your mind and vice versa. So, there's no point in arguing about it, as we'll just go around in circles.
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Re: Yes, I've seen these exact same arguments in other places online....
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May 18, 2024, 9:37 PM
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I know this is a big ask, but can you attempt to steel-man my argument? I honestly don't know if the distinction is understood.
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Orange Blooded [2208]
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Nope.****
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May 18, 2024, 9:38 PM
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: Nope.****
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May 18, 2024, 9:43 PM
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figures.
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Orange Blooded [2208]
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No offense. Just saving us both pointless head-bashing....
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May 18, 2024, 9:52 PM
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I get enough of that on the Politics board. No reason to do the same over here. There's only so much I can take, and I imagine you'd feel the same way from the other side.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: No offense. Just saving us both pointless head-bashing....
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May 18, 2024, 9:58 PM
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I mean, this isn't that hard, I think there is legitimately just a misunderstanding. We are talking about a philosophical point here, not a religious one, you know, kind of the point of a P&R board.
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110%er [6571]
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Re: I can't answer your concern really....
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May 18, 2024, 10:23 PM
[ in reply to Re: I can't answer your concern really.... ] |
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I understand what you are saying. I think you will never find scientific proof of God. The proof is found in your heart. If you are truly seeking, He will at some time reveal Himself to you.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: I can't answer your concern really....
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May 18, 2024, 10:31 PM
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ok, but even if that's true, at this point in time i am not making a choice to deny him, I simply do not know he's there.
Is that agreeable?
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110%er [6571]
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Re: I can't answer your concern really....
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May 18, 2024, 10:35 PM
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Agreeable. I hope at some point in time you find what you seek.
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: I can't answer your concern really....
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May 18, 2024, 10:41 PM
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wow, i'm a bit surprised. Nice.
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Orange Blooded [2242]
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Re: I personally went through a period of roughly 10 years....
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May 18, 2024, 9:05 PM
[ in reply to I personally went through a period of roughly 10 years.... ] |
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Thanks for sharing that. Sorry about your grandmother.
I could see an event like that changing my mind about god.
However, you can clearly be a giving person without being religious.
And you can believe in a higher power without being a Christian.
While the sentiment is nice, it’s a little bit insulting and naive to assume everyone needs Christ, as if there is something wrong with those who do not buy into the religious dogma.
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Orange Blooded [2208]
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I agree with alot of what you're saying....
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May 18, 2024, 9:38 PM
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I'm just giving you my own experience. The most loving, caring, helping people I've ever been around were Christians. And I believe in the Love of Christ.
All of this being said, there are many people who are not generally religious who do alot to help others. I realize that giving to others is not exclusive to religious people. And further, I think there are a lot of "Christians" who don't exhibit any evidence of wanting to help others. You're describing the human condition, and I don't think I'm particularly any better than anyone else, just because I believe in Christ.
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110%er [6571]
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Re: I personally went through a period of roughly 10 years....
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May 18, 2024, 10:35 PM
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Since being insulted is off the table, how is this not a cult?
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110%er [6571]
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Re: I personally went through a period of roughly 10 years....
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May 18, 2024, 10:39 PM
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What about Jesus saying "No man cometh to The Father but by Me." would make Christianity a cult?
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: I personally went through a period of roughly 10 years....
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May 18, 2024, 10:41 PM
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Are you serious?
cult: a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.
How is it not exactly what it is?
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110%er [6571]
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Re: I personally went through a period of roughly 10 years....
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May 18, 2024, 10:44 PM
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If you apply that definition, what religion wouldn't be a cult?
A better definition is:
"a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister."
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CU Guru [1189]
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Re: I personally went through a period of roughly 10 years....
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May 18, 2024, 10:56 PM
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I don’t disagree. The only difference between a religion and a cult is the number of subscribers
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