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Replies: 76
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All-In [31074]
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doesn't really matter. People will judge by the Joe Burrows
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May 20, 2024, 10:35 AM
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and will forget the Spencer Ratliffs.
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All-TigerNet [13085]
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Spencer Rattler was good. They would've likely been
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May 20, 2024, 10:38 AM
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awful without him.
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Legend [16254]
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They certainly wouldn't have beaten us in the Valley without him***
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May 20, 2024, 3:38 PM
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Commissioner [960]
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Re: doesn't really matter. People will judge by the Joe Burrows
May 20, 2024, 10:39 AM
[ in reply to doesn't really matter. People will judge by the Joe Burrows ] |
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They convienintly forget that the heaviest portal user of Colorado had 40 portal players last season and went 1-8 in their conference and 4-8 overall. They have 38 portal players this season and I bet they will have similar results.
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Legend [19708]
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I don't know of anyone that argues that a team should build half the roster from
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May 20, 2024, 10:42 AM
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the portal.....this is a dumb argument. No one points to Colorado has an example of what they're arguing for. They point to Washington or Georgia or Alabama or Texas.
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CU Guru [1054]
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Re: I don't know of anyone that argues that a team should build half the roster from
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May 20, 2024, 10:54 AM
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And ga Al and Tex gonna be winning without it. Does it help their results? Maybe a little, does it hurt high school recruiting. I think so in some cases with players who know they’ll struggle to become starters and gonna get bumped by a portal player. Does it hurt the fan base? YES!!! Those who think like me.
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Legend [19708]
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Re: I don't know of anyone that argues that a team should build half the roster from
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May 20, 2024, 11:18 AM
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Al Ga and Tex wouldn't be winning without, absolutely not. Because they've lost important players and depth to the portal. They simply replaced it using the portal. We've lost it as well. But we don't replace and have gotten worse.
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Re: I don't know of anyone that argues that a team should build half the roster from
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May 21, 2024, 8:50 AM
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"Every transfer UGA, Bama and TX take is another potential 5 star recruit for Dabo and the Tigers. I hope all 3 schools, plus a few others, load up and go broke."
Now tell us how that strategy is going? lol We haven't sniffed the top 5 in recruiting for some time now. Those teams you're referring to about taking portal players HAVE. Not only are they getting more talent from the portal than us they're getting more talent from high schools than us.
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Orange Blooded [4205]
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To your point CUAtTheFinishLine®
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May 21, 2024, 11:46 AM
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I dont think our stance has helped HS recruiting...at all. The idea is it is supposed to appeal to HS kids....and maybe it does for a select few, but not really seeing it in our rankings. 2025 TBD...
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Re: I don't know of anyone that argues that a team should build half the roster from
May 20, 2024, 2:03 PM
[ in reply to I don't know of anyone that argues that a team should build half the roster from ] |
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the portal.....this is a dumb argument. No one points to Colorado has an example of what they're arguing for. They point to Washington or Georgia or Alabama or Texas.
ummm…Coach Prime makes that argument & so does Norvell. Colorado was all the rage starting out 3-0 and CDS was a genius. TP players the way to go. They finish 4-8. FSU fares better of course then QB JT (a 4 yr player transferred in as a red-shirt Fr from Syracuse then “developed” under Taggert then Norvell) goes down and you get multiple out transfers and no-shows, then the CFP snub & the bowl game debacle. Geez even the back-up QB, who would have been the starter for sure this season bolted. So in the end were they a better team? Then they get DJU out of the portal. That’s a plus?
Our HS recruits including many 1st & 2nd year players, a Sophomore QB starting his 4th game under a new OC and we still beat them every which way but the score. A scoop and score & a missed field goal were the difference. Change either one of those plays & we win.
If you believe the TP is the wave of the future for teams going to the top then you’ve bought what the ESukPN talking heads have sold you. It’s just more hype and click-bait.
You probably think the Covid shot is a vaccine and the CDC told us the truth about the pandemic as well.
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Legend [19708]
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It's already the wave for teams at the top
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May 20, 2024, 3:01 PM
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Look around you Ellen. What do you mean future? Every top team in College Football has starting transfer portal players. You're delusional
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All-Conference [437]
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Re: I don't know of anyone that argues that a team should build half the roster from
May 20, 2024, 7:56 PM
[ in reply to I don't know of anyone that argues that a team should build half the roster from ] |
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No one points to it because it didn’t work. Again, for the teenth time: what team was actually a BETTER team because of their TP players? And more to the point what did they achieve that they wouldn’t have otherwise?
FSU did not beat us because they had TP players & we didn’t. They beat us because we had a new QB making his 4th start under a new OC and a FG kicker with snakes in his head.
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Orange Blooded [4205]
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Re: I don't know of anyone that argues that a team should build half the roster from
May 21, 2024, 11:47 AM
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PUG, you dont think Keon Coleman had an effect on the game last year?????????????
You dont think BAMA's starting OC on their last CFP Champ team didn't help?
Or the nine MICH transfers they had from this past year???
NO ONE is arguing to do it like FSU or COLO. DO it like Bama, UGA...sprinkle in a few. 95% should be HS recruiting....fill in gaps with other. Just like Summer OVs, tweak it due to changing landscape..............
You don't think we could've used an alpha WR last year like Coleman? or another OL for the injury bug we had?
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Legend [19708]
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Re: I don't know of anyone that argues that a team
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May 21, 2024, 11:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: I don't know of anyone that argues that a team should build half the roster from ] |
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"Again, for the teenth time: what team was actually a BETTER team because of their TP players? And more to the point what did they achieve that they wouldn’t have otherwise?"
Uh, every single team in the top 25 not named Clemson?
uh, a national championship? Making the NCG? Making the playoffs? Winning their conference? Do you even pay attention to college football at all? lol
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Starter [367]
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Re: I don't know of anyone that argues that a team should build half the roster from
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May 21, 2024, 11:59 AM
[ in reply to Re: I don't know of anyone that argues that a team should build half the roster from ] |
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Dude get your head out of your butt. Fsu improved there team and went undefeated in the regular season. You ever stopped to think that if you used the portal you would have a new qb? Funny how that works and how some can’t rationalize that. I can name several
Drake nugent center- transferred to Michigan and started. He helped.
Henderson oline selected in this years draft he also started for Michigan. Reckon he helped?
Truth is Michigan had 5 transfers come in last year that contributed and went to the NFL. How about we beat FSU is dabo took a kicker out of the portal. Y’all can try to side with him all you want but the truth is you can’t point to a single team that is coming close to accomplishing what Dabo is being stubborn about for no reason.
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1st Rounder [628]
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Legend [19708]
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also this***
May 20, 2024, 10:46 AM
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Commissioner [960]
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Re: also this***
May 20, 2024, 10:52 AM
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This also show that most Americans just go on their feelings, popular rants, and memes. facts don't really matter. All I would point out is that success is not built on the portals or perhaps it is. The data shows that both ways work and one way still works slightly better than the other.
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Legend [19708]
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Re: also this***
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May 20, 2024, 10:56 AM
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How does it show both ways work when the only non-military school that doesn't use the portal has gotten worse?
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110%er [5591]
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Re: also this***
May 20, 2024, 3:52 PM
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How does it show both ways work when the only non-military school that doesn't use the portal has gotten worse?
Because you have decided to correlate our “down” years and portal usage. Without actual proof they are linked.
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110%er [9012]
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This is also how most Americans get their info these days
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May 20, 2024, 11:16 AM
[ in reply to Re: also this*** ] |
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They scour the internet till they find "facts" that support the narrative they like. This is just a scholastic work that hasn't even yet been approved by peer review.
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Legend [18101]
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^^^ And this sums up life in 2024 ^^^***
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May 20, 2024, 11:26 AM
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Commissioner [960]
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Legend [19708]
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If you think that then you are oblivious to how bad their roster was***
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May 20, 2024, 10:56 AM
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CU Guru [1152]
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Re: If you think that then you are oblivious to how bad their roster was***
May 20, 2024, 11:27 PM
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Exactly!
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All-In [49981]
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Re: doesn't really matter. People will judge by the Joe Burrows
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May 20, 2024, 1:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: doesn't really matter. People will judge by the Joe Burrows ] |
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Just _saying you cherrypicked the verbiage to prop up your position that you don't like posters who suggest Dabo should use said portal. The article does not say 1.4 more wins as you stated.
The article also specifically states that teams that used the portal for QB's and offensive line tend to win more games.
It's not that teams win more by going the Dabo route but teams that use it selectively and correctly tend to win more games.
Personally, I like the article. But I also think we're way too early in the process to conclude one way or another. I support Dabo 110% for now. But I do see the trend is just now creeping into football. All the other sports can't afford to NOT use the portal. Basketball and baseball being prime examples.
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Commissioner [960]
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Re: doesn't really matter. People will judge by the Joe Burrows
May 20, 2024, 2:57 PM
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To be honest. I cherry picked verbage as a hook.
This is what I really think and it is probably the majority of opinion among fans. I do not want to Clemson to be a team of hired guns. I want kids recruited to Clemson that are loyal to Clemson and not playing with their head on a swivel looking for a better offer. However, if the portal has a seriously better option...if the shoe fits wear it. Clemson should use the portal when it's critical. If you don't think winning is critical to the future success of an entire college football program you must be nuts...if a team is seriously missing talent at a postion either due to injury or bad recruiting then hold the phone and get the player you need. Although it would seriously suck for a player to be loyal and bust his butt for two or three years to never get their chance because some other player was literally hired at the last minute. That has to hurt the eniter morale of the team.
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Orange Blooded [4205]
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Just...
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May 21, 2024, 11:53 AM
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you already have kids that leave and arent loyal to clemson that we signed.
We could have used it sparingly the last few years (1-3) kids. The mature depth would've helped...part at WR and OL spots where quality experienced depth was too low for a program of Clemson's stature.
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CU Guru [1152]
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The original post and yours both have similar issues.
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May 20, 2024, 4:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: doesn't really matter. People will judge by the Joe Burrows ] |
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Appeal to Small Sample Size logical fallacy.
There are 134 FBS schools.
129 use transfers. 4 do not. If the 4,
Clemson is the ONLY one that doesn't have a Congressional appointment to get in. Army, Navy, and Air Force require 4 years and a lengthy military commitment after graduation. That makes this an extreme apples and oranges situation.
Colorado? One year into a rebuild from a 1-11 year with an unprecedented number of players leaving. They would have had very little room for incoming transfers if their previous team had t kitky quite because they didn't want to work hard for Coach Prime.
They still improved their winning percentage 400% despite that.
Injecting Colorado Into this is silly.
Prime had one year with a long term losing team. Dabo? Not even close.
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Legend [19708]
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Re: doesn't really matter. People will judge by the Joe Burrows
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May 20, 2024, 1:10 PM
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idk but he may be related to Spencer Rattler
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Legend [18101]
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Re: doesn't really matter. People will judge by the Joe Burrows
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May 20, 2024, 11:24 AM
[ in reply to doesn't really matter. People will judge by the Joe Burrows ] |
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That’s good because according to this yet to be peer reviewed study, “ We found that transfer quarterbacks and interior offensive linemen significantly outperformed recruits”
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CU Guru [1152]
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Re: doesn't really matter. People will judge by the Joe Burrows
May 20, 2024, 4:03 PM
[ in reply to doesn't really matter. People will judge by the Joe Burrows ] |
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Rattler far exceeded expectations at SC.
He was 1-1 against us. His win was in a game where our Defense scored 9 points.
I guess Dabo should have gone for 2 after iyr defensive TD. That way we could st least have gotten OT. 😂😂
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110%er [6162]
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If we win a national championship in Basketball will it be said
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May 20, 2024, 10:40 AM
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We bought it in the portal?
Or does it matter either way!
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110%er [9012]
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Like I posted in the other thread just a college kid writing a term paper
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May 20, 2024, 11:04 AM
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If you look at every school that heavily uses the portal it's gonna skew negative because those are the places that have terrible rosters to start with.
But for the sake of argument here are the conclusions they make that apply most closely to our situation
"We found that transfer quarterbacks and interior offensive linemen significantly outperformed recruits"
"Our results suggest that coaches and recruiters should diligently use the portal for strategic acquisitions rather than as a replacement for traditional recruiting through high school and junior college,”
This is exactly what we've been saying no one wants us to become Colorado we're just looking for a little help
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Orange Blooded [4205]
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Geech with FACTS again.....
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May 21, 2024, 11:57 AM
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1000%
But you realize ppl on the other side KNOW this. They are just going to side with current decision Dabo has made no matter what...and that fine. But don't stick your head in the sand and not realize we could get a bit of help---esp considering the depth issues we've had the past few years.
SAME THING with Summer OV. Same ppl said no way, agreed with Dabo. Dabo, smartly, changed course and it is MUCH better now.
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Orange Blooded [3474]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
May 20, 2024, 11:06 AM
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Thank you for facts.
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Orange Blooded [3651]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
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May 20, 2024, 11:07 AM
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Man that’s one advanced correlational study
And it’s all just relative anyways.
There are teams that are loaded with transfers. But example, Colorado isn’t Alabama. Both have 40 transfers this year.
Message was edited by: ROYBus10®
Message was edited by: ROYBus10®
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110%er [5262]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
May 20, 2024, 1:16 PM
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Yep... must've used AI... 
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Orange Blooded [3651]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
May 20, 2024, 3:13 PM
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They could’ve done it with a calculator
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All-TigerNet [14413]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
May 20, 2024, 11:45 AM
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I think the real crux of the findings is that a strong high school recruiting emphasis with a selective and limited focus on using the portal to fill gaps, needs, and depth is the best of both worlds.
“Our results suggest that coaches and recruiters should diligently use the portal for strategic acquisitions rather than as a replacement for traditional recruiting through high school and junior college.”
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1st Rounder [602]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
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May 20, 2024, 11:48 AM
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The only study that matters will take place throughout the 2024 season.
With CDS being the only competitive coach not using portal:
A) Clemson steps up and improves this season = CDS is a genius.
B) Clemson takes a step back = CDS better have a Plan B in his pocket for 2025 or he may be in the hot seat.
Not predicting one or the other. He has singled himself out and he is on the big stage with all spotlights on him by his own doing. Everyone is split on this one … Tiger Nation, media, etc.
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Scout Team [162]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
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May 20, 2024, 11:49 AM
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I'll add a little something to this conversation using number of transfers from last year's top 8 teams. Essentially, the playoff teams and the next four who were in the playoff hunt until the conference championship week. These are just counting the transfers taken the off-season prior to the 2023 season. It doesn't include transfers still on the roster from previous off-seasons.
Michigan - 9
Washington - 10
Texas - 5
Bama - 5
FSU - 12
UGA - 4
Ohio State - 9
Oregon - 16
So, all of these teams utilized the transfer portal to varying degrees. I'm not a proponent of heavy portal usage, but it seems like a really good idea to bring in several players who can help a couple groups that lack some talent or depth.
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MVP [505]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
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May 20, 2024, 12:46 PM
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I did a quick check to see how those portal players actually contributed. Georgia took 4:
Smoke Bouie - CB
Rara Thomas - WR
Dominic Lovett - WR
Len'Neth Whitehead - RB
Smoke Bouie - Did not play a snap for Georgia in 2023; in 2022 at Texas A&M played in 4 games with a total of 4 tackles (3 solo) and 1 pass defended.
Rara Thomas - Played in 11 of 14 games for the Bulldogs, starting eight times…had 23 receptions for 383 yards and one TD on the season. Decent stats, nothing special. Listed as #3 on WR depth chart.
Dominic Lovett - Played in all 14 games, making seven starts… ranked second on the team with 54 receptions for 613 yards, hauling in four touchdowns. Solid contributor.
Len'Neth Whitehead -Did not play a snap for Georgia in 2023, not listed on the depth chart for 2023.
So half of their transfers played and contributed, one was a solid pickup, one was ok. The other 2 did not play for reasons not given.
I'd say just like the OP article, it's a mixed bag whether you use the portal or not.
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All-TigerNet [14413]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
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May 20, 2024, 1:18 PM
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It doesn't take many key contributors to make an impact. If we had a Coleman at WR last year and a couple of contributing linemen, it makes one wonder what our season might have looked like.
And a good FG kicker from the beginning...
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All-Conference [437]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
May 20, 2024, 7:47 PM
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A good kicker wins us Duke & FSU. After that doesn’t much matter. Were there any kickers in the portal? I mean before we actually took the field we thought we had a kicker. Unfortunately being a great kicker in practice doesn’t mean a great kicker on game day.
PS: same problem this year maybe
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Legend [19708]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
May 21, 2024, 1:05 PM
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There were several kickers this last cycle that finished in the top 10, top 20 of kickers in the nation in 2023. So yes.
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110%er [5591]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
May 21, 2024, 1:07 PM
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We didn't know we needed a kicker until September.
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Legend [19708]
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Fair enough
May 21, 2024, 1:23 PM
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But kicker really was the least of our concerns. Score TDs you don't need FGs.
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Orange Blooded [4205]
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Legend [19708]
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MVP [505]
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Re: Funny that you cherry pick the team that had the least haha***
May 21, 2024, 10:22 AM
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I picked Alabama because I did it at work and didn't have a couple of hours to spend on it. The point remains, it's not conclusive either way. There's dozens of teams filled with transfer portal players that didn't have as successful of a season as Clemson, while there's others that did.
And just like recruiting out of HS, they have to want to come here. Dabo did try to get players out of the portal, offensive linemen, but none committed. We can't force players to come here and most players that are good enough to come here and play are looking for a payday.
Who should we kick off of the team, or at least revoke their scholarship to offer exactly who in the portal? People love to toss out generalities of "we should have recruited a lineman, or WR, or " but rarely can name who, or who we should remove to make room. Take into account also the player you want's NIL demands and why did they leave their last team. Are they a culture fit for Clemson?
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CU Guru [1152]
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That's an Appeal to Small Sample Size
May 21, 2024, 10:39 AM
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Logical fallacy.
Clemson is a classic case of n=1.
Given that Clemson is the only school that can take transfers without a Congressional appointment, the Tigers W/L doesn't matter by comparison unless they are consistently at it near the top.
8-4 regular seasons aren't near the top.
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MVP [505]
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Re: That's an Appeal to Small Sample Size
May 21, 2024, 7:17 PM
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It doesn't change the fact that people clamor for portal players, yet fail to state who's scholarship they would revoke to make room. I'm neither for nor against the portal, I look at it just like high school recruiting; if there's someone there you want and that can make you a better team, get them if they are willing to come to you.
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Legend [19708]
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Re: That's an Appeal to Small Sample Size
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May 21, 2024, 12:48 PM
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Well we had 12 leave the team so there's 12.
Then there's the other 7 or 8 that never should have been offered a scholarship to begin with. So 19? 20?
Any other questions?
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MVP [505]
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Re: That's an Appeal to Small Sample Size
May 21, 2024, 12:53 PM
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Yes - name the 7 or 8 you feel should have never been offered a scholarship to begin with. We signed more than 12 in this high school class, so that covers the 12 who left. (We signed 13 to be exact)
Your still inflecting generalities. Dabo gave these kids a scholarship for a reason, who are we to tell him he was wrong? Now in addition to saying Dabo's wrong about the portal, your saying he is wrong in who he rewards with scholarships for hard work.
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Legend [19708]
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Re: That's an Appeal to Small Sample Size
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May 21, 2024, 12:58 PM
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Paul Tyson
Jack Smith
Holden Caspersen
Watson Young
Joe Wilkinson
CJ Kubah-Taylor
Jarvis Green
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Legend [19708]
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Re: That's an Appeal to Small Sample Size
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May 21, 2024, 12:59 PM
[ in reply to Re: That's an Appeal to Small Sample Size ] |
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We lost 12 to the portal PLUS the one's who graduated or left early for the draft PLUS the ones who never should be on scholarship to begin with. The number is closer 30 spots or more. There was room for the portal. Plenty of it.
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Legend [19708]
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CU Guru [1152]
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Scout Team [162]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
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May 20, 2024, 3:40 PM
[ in reply to Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers ] |
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So, UGA got 77 receptions, 996 yards and 5 TD's from two portal WR's last season? That would've been nice here.
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110%er [5591]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
May 20, 2024, 4:01 PM
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They wouldn’t have had 0 without them
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All-Conference [437]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
May 20, 2024, 8:06 PM
[ in reply to Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers ] |
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And they did not make it to CFP either. What did they achieve that they wouldn’t have otherwise? Their BS schedule was the most important factor in what they DID manage
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Scout Team [162]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
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May 20, 2024, 10:51 PM
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What about the four teams that made the playoffs? They had a combined 29 transfers in the 2023 cycle. I wondered if they would have won their conferences and accomplished what they had without the portal (Pennix and Ewers included).
Dabo says the portal is the devil and therefore all of mindless followers believe that to be the truth.
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All-TigerNet [10926]
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Please show me the Dabo quote where he said the portal is the devil!***
May 20, 2024, 11:25 PM
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Starter [367]
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CU Guru [1152]
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#3 WR on that team is actually pretty good.
May 21, 2024, 1:01 PM
[ in reply to Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers ] |
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Rara Thomas may have been listed at #3 WR, but that's actually Receiver #4 on the team that had Brock Bowers.
With Bowers and McConkey in the NFL,
Thomas will be no lower than WR #2 for the dogs this fall. He's certainly better off there than at Miss State. He definitely has a better QB throwing to him there.
And...for all the people that talk about "development", Georgia is developing their transfers, too.
I just hope he doesn't have a career game against us.
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All-In [27809]
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Re: Study on using transfers or not using transfers
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May 20, 2024, 2:02 PM
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This study is not worth the paper it is printed on. There is way too many variables to consider in each team and each portal player. A study to determine what they sought to prove, would be way beyond their expertise. You would have to have at least 100 different factors to consider for every player on every team in the study as well as the different teams played and strength of schedule. This study is an embarassment.
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CU Guru [1152]
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Lots of transfers really helped their new teams.
1
May 20, 2024, 4:07 PM
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Not just Burrow and Rattler.
Justin Fields at OSU.
Penix, Jr. at Washington.
Nice at Oregon.
Henry To'oToo at Alabama - including a Natty.
Hendon Hooker at Tennessee.
The law of averages says that the misses don't outweigh that kind of success.
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Orange Blooded [2544]
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Re: Lots of transfers really helped their new teams.
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May 21, 2024, 1:03 PM
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Plus, if you take three transfers, one of them is player of the year at his position and the other two do nothing, was it worth it? Abso-freaking-lutely.
The problem is, I'm not sure we actually do any player development.
We've not helped a quarterback progress. Oh, the coaches all do a ton of talking about Player X, "the game slowed down for him this summer," tremendous progress, etc. Game 1? Nothing to show.
Reps is about the only way we help a player. As great as CJ was, is he coaching players how to not fall down after a gain of six yards? Do we really think Shipley grew greatly? His stats indicate he was just as good as a freshman as he was last season, with a slight peak in his sophomore year.
Our only hope is to find talented high school kids, or talented transfers, who don't need any "coaching up" to come and dominate.
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CU Guru [1153]
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I don't trust studies from ducks
May 21, 2024, 2:27 PM
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